Please help me choose: EAL/D with a state rank or Advanced high band 6? (1 Viewer)

[beaver194]

Hey everyone,

im in year 11 now and English has surprisingly been my strongest subject. For context, im at one of the top performing schools in NSW and rank top 3 overall and came first in English last year.

now im eligible to do EAL/D as I moved to Australia in year 7. Do you guys think I should do English advanced for the academic rigour, or do EAL/D for the prospect of a state rank? Which option would maximise my ATAR?

thank you everyone for your help!

 

[AsuTeksu]

Definitely English Advanced

 

[xoNat]

If you can excel in English Advanced then you are not suited to EALD, why not push for an English Advanced state rank?

 

[Aeonium]

Definitely English Advanced

what

If you can excel in English Advanced then you are not suited to EALD, why not push for an English Advanced state rank?

pushing for eng adv state rank is honestly a weird goal
if they do eald they won't need to put in like any effort as compared to advanced so like you can spend all that time on other subjects
idk about y'all but eng is such a time sink

 

[xoNat]

what

pushing for eng adv state rank is honestly a weird goal
if they do eald they won't need to put in like any effort as compared to advanced so like you can spend all that time on other subjects
idk about y'all but eng is such a time sink

Idk it's just a question like that's such good marks why not try your very best at your highest capability but yeah if they don't like english/don't wanna waste time then sure eald

 

[WeiWeiMan]

what

pushing for eng adv state rank is honestly a weird goal
if they do eald they won't need to put in like any effort as compared to advanced so like you can spend all that time on other subjects
idk about y'all but eng is such a time sink

fax bro
idk how someone can just get eald sr but eng adv sr is crazyy

 

[ExtremelyBoredUser]

eald low diff

 

[Alpcufd]

Hey everyone,

im in year 11 now and English has surprisingly been my strongest subject. For context, im at one of the top performing schools in NSW and rank top 3 overall and came first in English last year.

now im eligible to do EAL/D as I moved to Australia in year 7. Do you guys think I should do English advanced for the academic rigour, or do EAL/D for the prospect of a state rank? Which option would maximise my ATAR?

thank you everyone for your help!

I feel like most selective schools dont offer eald , is that the case?

 

[beaver194]

I feel like most selective schools dont offer eald , is that the case?

Sorry I just saw this...

Yes from my experience. It makes sense though - most people who get into selective schools were born here in Australia.

 

[beaver194]

Advice to those who are eligible for EAL/D, but are considering English Advanced because they feel 'passionate' about Shakespeare & English at a 'higher level'

OK. I'm writing to the future -- to whomever ending up in this 'dilemma' and needs guidance.

DO NOT DO ENGLISH ADVANCED FOR THE LOVE OF GOD if you are eligible for EAL/D
QUIT THINKING "OH I LOVE ENGLISH, I AM GOOD AT THE SUBJECT, I AM SO DIFFERENT OMG" (this is more so directed at my y11 self)
ENGLISH EAL/D REMAINS THE 'FUN' ENGLISH WE WERE DOING IN JUNIOR YEARS (well, better than the Advanced hellscape for sure!)

Perhaps do Advanced in y11 (idk).

WHY EAL/D OVER ADVANCED?

The way exam questions are written, are way more accessible and easier to adapt your memorised responses. Let's not kid ourselves in saying we'll be writing anything entirely spontaneous on the spot. 40 minutes per essay in the HSC... This year's advanced questions were all text specific (Mod A and B). Not a fun experience. Meanwhile, EAL/D's questions were more conceptual and open-ended, making it easier to go in with a polished piece with smoother adaptation.

Let's look at an example for the 'close study of literature' module for the 2025 HSC:

English Advanced (text specific so I'm using my prescribed text):

​

English Advanced

English EAL/D

Question 2 (d) — Poetry – T S Eliot, T S Eliot: Selected Poems (20 marks) Journey of the Magi (extract) All this was a long time ago, I remember, And I would do it again, but set down This set down This: were we led all that way for Birth or Death? There was a Birth, certainly, We had evidence and no doubt. I had seen birth and death, But had thought they were different; this Birth was Hard and bitter agony for us, like Death, our death. We returned to our places, these Kingdoms, But no longer at ease here, in the old dispensation, With an alien people clutching their gods. I should be glad of another death. T S Eliot: Collected Poems (1909–1962) Journey of the Magi by T S Eliot, Faber and Faber Ltd. In what ways is this closing stanza of Journey of the Magi an effective resolution to the poetic tensions explored in Eliot’s poetry? In your response, make close reference to Journey of the Magi and at least ONE other prescribed poem. The prescribed poems are: * The Love Song of J Alfred Prufrock * Preludes * Rhapsody on a Windy Night * The Hollow Men * Journey of the Magi

Question 2 (20 marks) How does your prescribed text use language forms and features to evoke empathy, and challenge you to see the world differently? In your response, make detailed reference to your prescribed text.

The above is pretty self-explanatory. In the first instance (advanced), if you don't know this particular poem in much depth, you're cooked. The way they specified 'ending' would also be a great challenge to many (myself included). I was lucky enough to have gotten an 18.5/20 for this section, but mainly because I liked this poem and had lots to say about it. In my Trial HSC they specified Preludes which I hated, so I ended up with a 13/20.


Now, you might say: "Advanced must scale better than EAL/D"

Not true.

I worked extremely hard throughout the year and got a 91/100 in advanced (scaled mark 41), while someone in my year who arrived in Australia a few years ago, and to be frank, didn't put as much effort into the subject, got a 93/100 in EAL/D (scaled mark 45)

A scaled mark of 45 is the same as getting a 90/100 in maths extension 2, or 94/100 in physics.

What I am trying to say here is that you will get much higher Return on Investment if you chose EAL/D. As I explained above, Advanced questions are so unpredictable that you have to be ready for anything.

To illustrate further, both English courses require creative writing: imaginative (story), discursive, informative, persuasive. English Advanced (2024) specified discursive, while EAL/D has always given students a CHOICE.

English Advanced has poor ROI -- look the above statements up (text-specific, specifying text type) and you'll find lots of BoSers corroborating my assertions.

I was extremely lucky to have ended up in my desired course. This whole English thing could've ruined my ATAR entirely.

TL;DR: IF YOU CAN, DO ENGLISH EAL/D. NO EXCEPTIONS.

 

[WeiWeiMan]

Advice to those who are eligible for EAL/D, but are considering English Advanced because they feel 'passionate' about Shakespeare & English at a 'higher level'

OK. I'm writing to the future -- to whomever ending up in this 'dilemma' and needs guidance.

DO NOT DO ENGLISH ADVANCED FOR THE LOVE OF GOD if you are eligible for EAL/D
QUIT THINKING "OH I LOVE ENGLISH, I AM GOOD AT THE SUBJECT, I AM SO DIFFERENT OMG" (this is more so directed at my y11 self)
ENGLISH EAL/D REMAINS THE 'FUN' ENGLISH WE WERE DOING IN JUNIOR YEARS (well, better than the Advanced hellscape for sure!)

Perhaps do Advanced in y11 (idk).

WHY EAL/D OVER ADVANCED?

The way exam questions are written, are way more accessible and easier to adapt your memorised responses. Let's not kid ourselves in saying we'll be writing anything entirely spontaneous on the spot. 40 minutes per essay in the HSC... This year's advanced questions were all text specific (Mod A and B). Not a fun experience. Meanwhile, EAL/D's questions were more conceptual and open-ended, making it easier to go in with a polished piece with smoother adaptation.

Let's look at an example for the 'close study of literature' module for the 2025 HSC:

English Advanced (text specific so I'm using my prescribed text):

​

English Advanced

English EAL/D

Question 2 (d) — Poetry – T S Eliot, T S Eliot: Selected Poems (20 marks) Journey of the Magi (extract) All this was a long time ago, I remember, And I would do it again, but set down This set down This: were we led all that way for Birth or Death? There was a Birth, certainly, We had evidence and no doubt. I had seen birth and death, But had thought they were different; this Birth was Hard and bitter agony for us, like Death, our death. We returned to our places, these Kingdoms, But no longer at ease here, in the old dispensation, With an alien people clutching their gods. I should be glad of another death. T S Eliot: Collected Poems (1909–1962) Journey of the Magi by T S Eliot, Faber and Faber Ltd. In what ways is this closing stanza of Journey of the Magi an effective resolution to the poetic tensions explored in Eliot’s poetry? In your response, make close reference to Journey of the Magi and at least ONE other prescribed poem. The prescribed poems are: * The Love Song of J Alfred Prufrock * Preludes * Rhapsody on a Windy Night * The Hollow Men * Journey of the Magi

Question 2 (20 marks) How does your prescribed text use language forms and features to evoke empathy, and challenge you to see the world differently? In your response, make detailed reference to your prescribed text.

The above is pretty self-explanatory. In the first instance (advanced), if you don't know this particular poem in much depth, you're cooked. The way they specified 'ending' would also be a great challenge to many (myself included). I was lucky enough to have gotten an 18.5/20 for this section, but mainly because I liked this poem and had lots to say about it. In my Trial HSC they specified Preludes which I hated, so I ended up with a 13/20.


Now, you might say: "Advanced must scale better than EAL/D"

Not true.

I worked extremely hard throughout the year and got a 91/100 in advanced (scaled mark 41), while someone in my year who arrived in Australia a few years ago, and to be frank, didn't put as much effort into the subject, got a 93/100 in EAL/D (scaled mark 45)

A scaled mark of 45 is the same as getting a 90/100 in maths extension 2, or 94/100 in physics.

What I am trying to say here is that you will get much higher Return on Investment if you chose EAL/D. As I explained above, Advanced questions are so unpredictable that you have to be ready for anything.

To illustrate further, both English courses require creative writing: imaginative (story), discursive, informative, persuasive. English Advanced (2024) specified discursive, while EAL/D has always given students a CHOICE.

English Advanced has poor ROI -- look the above statements up (text-specific, specifying text type) and you'll find lots of BoSers corroborating my assertions.

I was extremely lucky to have ended up in my desired course. This whole English thing could've ruined my ATAR entirely.

TL;DR: IF YOU CAN, DO ENGLISH EAL/D. NO EXCEPTIONS.

bro should've listened to the weiweiman fr fr
highkey like 0 upsides to doing english adv fr

aye what was your atar/ucat and what marks did u get to achieve that atar? I wanna get into monash med

 

[jane1820]

how tf are you recognised as eald? i also moved in yr 7 and was told to do advanced
(not that i ever wanted to do eald but im just asking)

 

[beaver194]

how tf are you recognised as eald? i also moved in yr 7 and was told to do advanced
(not that i ever wanted to do eald but im just asking)

Did you go to an English speaking school before y6? If not, you are definitely eligible.

Entry requirements for the HSC English EAL/D course​

​

The English EAL/D course may be studied by any student who has been educated overseas or in​

​

an Australian educational institution with English as the language of instruction for five years or less​

​

prior to commencing the Year 11 course. This includes Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander​

​

students from remote Indigenous communities where Standard Australian English is not the​

​

language of instruction.​

​

(link to NESA form english-eald-eligibility-declaration.pdf)​

​

So if one moves to a school with English as the primary language of instruction in Year 6 or later, they will be eligible for EAL/D.

At least consider EAL/D, for the reasons I outlined above. Your choice at the end of the day, but if your goal is to achieve a really high ATAR, don't say I haven't warned you

 

[beaver194]

bro should've listened to the weiweiman fr fr
highkey like 0 upsides to doing english adv fr

aye what was your atar/ucat and what marks did u get to achieve that atar? I wanna get into monash med

I can see why now. English Advanced is stupid. Not a strategically smart choice for people taking 4U maths -- trying to balance maths with English...

I didn't even use my NSW ATAR for med. Don't wanna dox myself entirely, but I simultaneously studied in another international qualification, and used that selection rank for Monash med (99.50+).

As I didn't take the conventional pathway, I can't really comment much on the UCAT/Australian ATAR required for Monash med, but anecdotally, the threshold is really high for interstate metro applicants. UNSW would be nice too with that extra research year; heard it'd be helpful for speciality training (becoming a radiologist/psychiatrist etc).

 

[WeiWeiMan]

I can see why now. English Advanced is stupid. Not a strategically smart choice for people taking 4U maths -- trying to balance maths with English...

I didn't even use my NSW ATAR for med. Don't wanna dox myself entirely, but I simultaneously studied in another international qualification, and used that selection rank for Monash med (99.50+).

As I didn't take the conventional pathway, I can't really comment much on the UCAT/Australian ATAR required for Monash med, but anecdotally, the threshold is really high for interstate metro applicants. UNSW would be nice too with that extra research year; heard it'd be helpful for speciality training (becoming a radiologist/psychiatrist etc).

im rural

did u use A levels?

 

[Study to success]

Can u just do the SAT which is super easy and get full marks to do med

 

[WeiWeiMan]

Can u just do the SAT which is super easy and get full marks to do med

ik someone who did SAT for unsw med so yes

 

[coolcat6778]

getting 1600 let alone a 1550 isn't easy at all for almost everyone

 

[beaver194]

im rural

did u use A levels?

Yes.

In that case I guess I'll see you in 2027!!

 

[beaver194]

Can u just do the SAT which is super easy and get full marks to do med

ik someone who did SAT for unsw med so yes

You can most certainly try, but there's a catch (two actually) that most aren't aware of:

1. UNSW claims to accept the most recent qualification completed for interview. Take 2025 as an example: HSC/ATAR release was 18 December and UNSW med sent out rejections/interview invitations on the same day. So, theoretically anything other than December SAT wouldn't have been considered at all (NSW ATAR being the most recent). And, the December SAT results came out a few days after the 18th. By that time, people would've been rejected.

2. USYD has publicly announced that they wouldn't accept the SAT for onshore domestic students starting in 2026 entry. UNSW from what I heard places lesser weight on the SAT for onshore domestic students.

From personal experience, I would say it's quite hard to get above 1500 without deliberate, consistent practice. The SAT has lots of grammar rules which are intentionally tricky and the examiners have increased the difficulty year by year. It's easier than the HSC for sure, but not really that easy. In light of the above, I don't think one should rely on the SAT for med entry.