Mod C help plssssssssssssssssssss (1 Viewer)

[tryingnottoprocrastinate]

What are the markers exactly looking for when they mark a discussive//imaginative//persuasive. What do I have to understand? How do I show that I understand it?

 

[herbimycin]

From a 2024 grad (adv english)

1. persuasive = high modality discursive. Like its literally discursive but you just argue for one side specifically. Thats one less thing to worry about, but do practice it at some point just in case they ask for it in the hsc (very highly doubt it, but don't quote me bc i dont want to be blamed for your hsc demise lol)

2. Imaginative - this was my strong suit. The hardest part for me was starting and getting a strong idea for a piece. Once i had that i was good, and got full marks on all the ones i did, so it was just my luck that they specified discursive or persuasive lol. Though despite it being my strong suit, i find it pretty hard to explain, but ill try my best.

• try to think of a storyline, theme, character, something (it doesn't really matter what) that has meaning behind it. Its great to know that George went for a walk, but why did he. Who is George really? What do the events symbolise, whats the history and emotion behind it all. I often wrote pieces that were based around grief and families - it gave me room to really characterise people in the story and develop deeper emotion that was complex and unique. E.g. for someone who is grieving, you want to convey more than 'sadness' - grief is far more complicated and profound. You need to find ways to (in very little time) share the depth of this emotion with the audience. This comes from the character(s)'s history, memories and experiences. Maybe George went on a walk to the lolly shop his grandmother took him to as a child, and for the first time in years bought a lolly that he always got with his grandma. (i am making this up as i go, its probably not a great example but you get the idea). Characters need to be unique and authentic. Find ways to give the piece deep and profound meaning. Sometimes, this sounds a bit silly when you first write it. Thats OK, its normal. But HSC markers love writing that is deeply meaningful - it has implications and meaning in life as a whole, not just in the story.

• Find a balance between imagery and action. I found that I would often do one or the other: lots of well crafted imagery and no storyline, or lots of action but no imagery to make it different from just recounting events. Use imagery and language techniques, but use them purposefully, everything you write should have a reason behind it. If every sentence is a metaphor, the marker will fall asleep before getting half way through. Don't overuse these things, make them special. Lots of fancy words does not equal marks.

• Think about using a recurring motif or idea. E.g. if you want to use a flashback to something in the characters past, include something that links the two moments in time. Maybe its a place, book, tree, who cares really. It creates symbolism and enriches the meaning of the piece. Not a must, but an option.

• Think about first vs third person (i mean technically you could use second person if you really wanted, but idk why you would). e.g. for one of my pieces I was originally going to write from the POV of a child - but i realised that doing that would make it very hard to express what i wanted to (a kid doesn't think in those kinds of ways). This was specific to my story, so in another it might be a great choice to write from the POV of a child. Just think about who is telling the story. If it's in first person, think about this person truly is; how do they speak and why, you need to go inside their brain and figure out how they think, who are they truly. In third person, you still need to do this, but you express it a bit differently. Don't make it sound like you are reading a storybook.

• you need really strong indirect characterisation (i.e. DO NOT say "Hi guys, welcome back to the channel, I'm George, yesterday my grandma died, lets go to the lolly shop we used to go to"). Show, don't tell (most of the time). Help the audience see who your characters really are in ways that you can't really do just by telling them. Make them feel like they actually know the characters (are they friends, enemies, confusing, whatever). This becomes integrated with the story itself; the events and emotions form part of the characterisation and reveal things about the characters themselves.

If I had to simplify imaginative/creative writing into one thing, it would be characterisation. You are revealing something, using words, in a way that words alone normally can't really do (weird i know). You are conveying things in a way that you can't really explain, you can't just say how they feel, you have to see it and hear it yourself. You are characterising in a way that reveals something to the audience about themselves, whether you know what that is initially or not. You help the audience see who they are themselves; reveal a new emotion; create a new thought or idea; challenge them or change their perspective; share the pain, grief, love, lust, hate, mercy, whatever that the characters feel. This is why I often find it natural to write about humans and relationships and emotion. That certainly isn't the only way, I've seen some brilliant but very different other pieces. I wrote from the POV of animals once, and it got me the same marks. Tho tbf they were really just representing human relationships in a new light.

One last thing for imaginative. This is a lot of info. The vast majority of it will be nowhere to be seen for the first while of writing and drafting. Thats fine. I found that I would 'discover' things as I write; despite it being "my story", I would see new things in it and understand it differently as I went on.

The best piece of advice I can give to you is JUST WRITE. Get a piece of paper, throw out every single idea that comes into your head. It should be terrible, i would worry if its not. They will probably sound corny, stupid, shallow and boring at first. But by throwing out ideas, you will start to form connections and see how little storylines can fit into motifs and emotions and other ideas. Pick something, literally anything, and just write about it. Write the worst piece of imaginative writing you have ever seen. Later read through it again slowly and pick out things you like. Maybe highlight a piece of imagery or a particular sentence, even just a singular word. Pick an emotion or a character, just find little parts that worked well. Then start to refine it. You might re-write whole sections, but keep the spine of your story. Maybe you get rid of the storyline itself, but keep the emotions and characterisation. Maybe you scrap the whole thing, but keep a record and use these ideas in another setting or story. Once you have something alright to work with, it will flow much more easily. You don't even have to start from the beginning of your story. If you have a great idea of an ending, write that first. At first I fell deep into the trap of perfectionism and wanted everything I wrote to be incredible. That makes it so much harder, because 99.999999% of the time, the first go will be rubbish no matter who you are. Just write and try to enjoy it. Over time, you will build up ideas, characters and storylines that can be used and adapted in the HSC.

 

[herbimycin]

Discursive is not all that different when it comes down to the basics. You want to write something that has meaning, truth or value in our real lives. This often doesn't come directly from a situation or experience that absolutely everyone has. It does need to have aspects that everyone can relate to, but if it is too broad, then it becomes boring. Use anecdotes purposefully. Why are you telling us this story, how does it relate and add to what you are trying to convey.

I would usually use personal experiences (doesn't have to be true necessarily) but in a way that everyone can still understand the point even if they haven't experienced it themselves. I don't have heaps to say about discursive tbh, im not too sure how to help in general.

Make sure it is engaging. You can use humour, stories, sarcasm (make sure it won't offend anyone, butt hurt marker = bad), whatever really, so long as it has a point and purpose. Try to choose a topic you care about, or at least use some analogies or stories that relate to things that you care about. You don't need to discuss your favourite soccer team or why orange is the best kind of juice (it is btw). But you do need to make authentic and talk about things that an everyday person can relate to. E.g. writing about an under-appreciated aspect of life. As a musician, i would use a music motif or metaphor, maybe about how very simple music can be incredibly touching and beautiful despite its simplicity. While not everyone is a musician, everyone listens to (or at least has heard) music and can appreciate how this can act as a metaphor for part of life.

I'm struggling to explain this one well tbh. If you have specific questions let me know, more than happy to help, but being more specific will prob make it easier

 

[tryingnottoprocrastinate]

From a 2024 grad (adv english)

At first I fell deep into the trap of perfectionism and wanted everything I wrote to be incredible. That makes it so much harder, because 99.999999% of the time, the first go will be rubbish no matter who you are. Just write and try to enjoy it. Over time, you will build up ideas, characters and storylines that can be used and adapted in the HSC.

OMG I'm also in this trap.

I'm struggling to explain this one well tbh. If you have specific questions let me know, more than happy to help, but being more specific will prob make it easier

Thank you so much! I really appreciate your time put into this. It really helped me a lot. I do have a question: How do you answer the question and how do you structure your response to that question? I tend to struggle with questions that asks you about the nature of writing itself. For example, "Words are X-rays. Once you read it, it pierces through your brain," or "I am writing because they told me to never start a sentence with because. But I wasn't trying to make a sentence—I was trying to break free." I have no idea what to write in order to answer the question. Thanks again for your advice!

 

[herbimycin]

OMG I'm also in this trap.



Thank you so much! I really appreciate your time put into this. It really helped me a lot. I do have a question: How do you answer the question and how do you structure your response to that question? I tend to struggle with questions that asks you about the nature of writing itself. For example, "Words are X-rays. Once you read it, it pierces through your brain," or "I am writing because they told me to never start a sentence with because. But I wasn't trying to make a sentence—I was trying to break free." I have no idea what to write in order to answer the question. Thanks again for your advice!

Yep, answering the question is often the most difficult part. Especially bc prior to the hsc you can spend ages perfecting everything, but you need to be able to adapt it quickly.

Remember that it does not need to be based purely on the stimulus. You must be influenced by the stimulus, and use it to prompt your piece in some way, but that shouldn't be the sole basis for the piece of writing.

Often, you will only really use part of the stimulus. They are not asking you to directly refer to every single word of the stimulus, and they certainly don't want you to just quote the thing.

Also remember that there of often many different ways to interpret the stimulus. You don't need to take it literally or have a really obvious, direct connection (i.e. don't write a creative piece about someone reading a book and then have them say "the author's words pieced through my brain like x-rays, breaking me free from reality). It is important to have a clear connection to the stimulus, but often you will interpret it differently or incorporate it very indirectly.

Say there is a particular phrase that jumps out at you. Use this to influence or shape the piece somehow. I know this is very broad, but there are heaps of ways you can do this - it is meant to give you ideas and the opportunity to write a unique piece, not to make everyone write in the same way! Maybe use it to shape the theme or message, or for others you could use it to shape a character. You can really do whatever you want so long as you still show that you are using the stimulus. Have a look at last year's mod C question:

• For all the benefits gained by time-saving inventions, there’s much to be said for going back to basics . . . So, could there be benefits to leading a life less convenient?

Craft a discursive or persuasive piece of writing that incorporates the ideas in the stimulus above.

I chose to write something about the value of simple things and moments in life. Now this wasn't exactly what the stimulus talked about, but it is connected, and I further incorporated it by talking a little bit about how in modern life and society everything is built around convenience and comfort, and sometimes it is important to take a step back and not feel the pressure of society to achieve everything and please everyone. I then linked that back to enjoying small, unimportant things, like music, cups of tea, a cool tree in the park. I originally was not going to talk about a 'life less convenient' or time saving inventions, but this was the clearest connection o the stimulus for me. You could also take a very different route and talk about technology. Maybe about social media. Maybe the value of being in nature. Maybe you talk about "time-saving inventions" and how one might feel like they have wasted their time their whole lives. None of these are directly or entirely about the stimulus, but they incorporate aspects of it.

I should also say that it is possible to have a very different piece of writing that seemingly does not talk about any of these things. Thats OK, you can still (most of the time) find ways to incorporate the stimulus. E.g. in a piece about someone's close family member dying, maybe you talk about a simple ("going back to basics") funeral, or some memory or object or something else that seems meaningless to everyone else, but to the person in the story it hold immense value because of the memories that link it to the family member who passed away (probably a more imaginative piece, but still applies). With this kind of thing, you do need to be careful to ensure that the connection to the stimulus is clear (dont shove it in their face, but place it in front of them so they can see it without having to stretch their brain to make a connection). So maybe comment on how the person in the story had been rushing and trying to achieve lots of things in life, trying to save time to get more or do more, but the death of the family member resets their perspective and shows them what is really important. Their grief prompts them to remember the basics of life and what it means to be human. Just another idea, not the only way of doing it.

For "Words are X-rays. Once you read it, it pierces through your brain", the obvious connection is to do with the power of literature kinda thing. If I had that stimulus, I would go to a piece I wrote about a kid whose parents died. In it the kid finds a particular picture book from his childhood that kind of forms some parallels between the book and the kid's lives - he uses it both as an escape but as a way to help himself grieve. The words gave him some clarity about the horrible situation he was in. I know this sounds terribly convenient, and it kind of is - english teachers have a bit of a god complex and seem to think english is the single most important thing in the world (no hate for english teachers, but its true). So they LOVE questions and stimuli about the "power of literature" and that kind of thing. So prepare something, or at least have some good ideas, about how you can incorporate this into a piece. On the previous example for last years paper, maybe talk about how the simple enjoyment of reading a novel, allowing you to escape reality or understand it better. Also works for your other prompt. Point is that markers will love it if you demonstrate through your piece the value and importance of literature in a slightly profound way.

"I am writing because they told me to never start a sentence with because. But I wasn't trying to make a sentence—I was trying to break free." - this is similar. Power of literature. Maybe instead of reading a book, someone is writing one, or a poem, or a play, anything really. Also you dont need to use this like a sentence starter - i.e. you dont necessarily have to write in first person and directly talk about writing something to break free. Maybe again it is someone understanding their grief through writing. Maybe starting a sentence with because and breaking writing conventions is a metaphor for breaking free of societal expectations or sterotypes (i wouldn't go starting every sentece with because, that's taking the metaphor too far). But you can use it as an impact statement, and i think that would be a strong and effective connection to the stimulus, especially bc it uses breaking free of something. You could go in another direction and talk about a prisoner - they don't have to be breaking free, but they could. Maybe they write something to break free of a feeling of guilt for their crimes. Maybe it is a literal prison break (I tended away from these kinds of full on action kind of themes. They are not bad, but i found it hard to make it effective and not just a corny action film script. But others are much better at that than me).

In short: don't worry about using the entire stimulus or doing it in the obvious way. This comes with practice and is a skill in itself. Towards the hsc I found some prompts, picked one randomly and gave myself like idk 5-10mins to write an outline of what i would write about. Like the themes, characters, important events, important motifs or parallels or creative elements and the very basic structure. This saves times and helps you practice using a stimulus. Note that it is still very important to practice writing pieces in full.

While yes, you must answer the question, the stimulus can have a broad interpretation and you can answer it in lots of clever, sneaky ways that are actually a whole lot more interesting and effective than taking on the stimulus literally and directly. Hope this helps, let me know if you need more clarification

 

[tryingnottoprocrastinate]

Yep, answering the question is often the most difficult part. Especially bc prior to the hsc you can spend ages perfecting everything, but you need to be able to adapt it quickly.

Remember that it does not need to be based purely on the stimulus. You must be influenced by the stimulus, and use it to prompt your piece in some way, but that shouldn't be the sole basis for the piece of writing.

Often, you will only really use part of the stimulus. They are not asking you to directly refer to every single word of the stimulus, and they certainly don't want you to just quote the thing.

Also remember that there of often many different ways to interpret the stimulus. You don't need to take it literally or have a really obvious, direct connection (i.e. don't write a creative piece about someone reading a book and then have them say "the author's words pieced through my brain like x-rays, breaking me free from reality). It is important to have a clear connection to the stimulus, but often you will interpret it differently or incorporate it very indirectly.

Say there is a particular phrase that jumps out at you. Use this to influence or shape the piece somehow. I know this is very broad, but there are heaps of ways you can do this - it is meant to give you ideas and the opportunity to write a unique piece, not to make everyone write in the same way! Maybe use it to shape the theme or message, or for others you could use it to shape a character. You can really do whatever you want so long as you still show that you are using the stimulus. Have a look at last year's mod C question:

• For all the benefits gained by time-saving inventions, there’s much to be said for going back to basics . . . So, could there be benefits to leading a life less convenient?

Craft a discursive or persuasive piece of writing that incorporates the ideas in the stimulus above.

I chose to write something about the value of simple things and moments in life. Now this wasn't exactly what the stimulus talked about, but it is connected, and I further incorporated it by talking a little bit about how in modern life and society everything is built around convenience and comfort, and sometimes it is important to take a step back and not feel the pressure of society to achieve everything and please everyone. I then linked that back to enjoying small, unimportant things, like music, cups of tea, a cool tree in the park. I originally was not going to talk about a 'life less convenient' or time saving inventions, but this was the clearest connection o the stimulus for me. You could also take a very different route and talk about technology. Maybe about social media. Maybe the value of being in nature. Maybe you talk about "time-saving inventions" and how one might feel like they have wasted their time their whole lives. None of these are directly or entirely about the stimulus, but they incorporate aspects of it.

I should also say that it is possible to have a very different piece of writing that seemingly does not talk about any of these things. Thats OK, you can still (most of the time) find ways to incorporate the stimulus. E.g. in a piece about someone's close family member dying, maybe you talk about a simple ("going back to basics") funeral, or some memory or object or something else that seems meaningless to everyone else, but to the person in the story it hold immense value because of the memories that link it to the family member who passed away (probably a more imaginative piece, but still applies). With this kind of thing, you do need to be careful to ensure that the connection to the stimulus is clear (dont shove it in their face, but place it in front of them so they can see it without having to stretch their brain to make a connection). So maybe comment on how the person in the story had been rushing and trying to achieve lots of things in life, trying to save time to get more or do more, but the death of the family member resets their perspective and shows them what is really important. Their grief prompts them to remember the basics of life and what it means to be human. Just another idea, not the only way of doing it.

For "Words are X-rays. Once you read it, it pierces through your brain", the obvious connection is to do with the power of literature kinda thing. If I had that stimulus, I would go to a piece I wrote about a kid whose parents died. In it the kid finds a particular picture book from his childhood that kind of forms some parallels between the book and the kid's lives - he uses it both as an escape but as a way to help himself grieve. The words gave him some clarity about the horrible situation he was in. I know this sounds terribly convenient, and it kind of is - english teachers have a bit of a god complex and seem to think english is the single most important thing in the world (no hate for english teachers, but its true). So they LOVE questions and stimuli about the "power of literature" and that kind of thing. So prepare something, or at least have some good ideas, about how you can incorporate this into a piece. On the previous example for last years paper, maybe talk about how the simple enjoyment of reading a novel, allowing you to escape reality or understand it better. Also works for your other prompt. Point is that markers will love it if you demonstrate through your piece the value and importance of literature in a slightly profound way.

"I am writing because they told me to never start a sentence with because. But I wasn't trying to make a sentence—I was trying to break free." - this is similar. Power of literature. Maybe instead of reading a book, someone is writing one, or a poem, or a play, anything really. Also you dont need to use this like a sentence starter - i.e. you dont necessarily have to write in first person and directly talk about writing something to break free. Maybe again it is someone understanding their grief through writing. Maybe starting a sentence with because and breaking writing conventions is a metaphor for breaking free of societal expectations or sterotypes (i wouldn't go starting every sentece with because, that's taking the metaphor too far). But you can use it as an impact statement, and i think that would be a strong and effective connection to the stimulus, especially bc it uses breaking free of something. You could go in another direction and talk about a prisoner - they don't have to be breaking free, but they could. Maybe they write something to break free of a feeling of guilt for their crimes. Maybe it is a literal prison break (I tended away from these kinds of full on action kind of themes. They are not bad, but i found it hard to make it effective and not just a corny action film script. But others are much better at that than me).

In short: don't worry about using the entire stimulus or doing it in the obvious way. This comes with practice and is a skill in itself. Towards the hsc I found some prompts, picked one randomly and gave myself like idk 5-10mins to write an outline of what i would write about. Like the themes, characters, important events, important motifs or parallels or creative elements and the very basic structure. This saves times and helps you practice using a stimulus. Note that it is still very important to practice writing pieces in full.

While yes, you must answer the question, the stimulus can have a broad interpretation and you can answer it in lots of clever, sneaky ways that are actually a whole lot more interesting and effective than taking on the stimulus literally and directly. Hope this helps, let me know if you need more clarification

Thank you!

 

[tigerian]

What are the markers exactly looking for when they mark a discussive//imaginative//persuasive. What do I have to understand? How do I show that I understand it?

I’ve marked hsc mod C . I am constructing an answer for you and I will send saturday evening

 

[Avagadroooooo]

Is there anyway to preprepare for MOD C because truthfully the only way ive been surviving the other modules is by memorising an essay

 

[tryingnottoprocrastinate]

I’ve marked hsc mod C . I am constructing an answer for you and I will send saturday evening

Hi sir, Pls answer I'm dying to know your answer. I would really appreciate it because I'm still lost what goes through the markers head. Is it all about the impression the markers get after reading it? And what would that impression be? Something like "damn that was interesting and I actually got something out of it. Let me give this person a band A"

 

[tigerian]

Hi sir, Pls answer I'm dying to know your answer. I would really appreciate it because I'm still lost what goes through the markers head. Is it all about the impression the markers get after reading it? And what would that impression be? Something like "damn that was interesting and I actually got something out of it. Let me give this person a band A"

i hav3 an answer for you l could I have your email address please